[Tox Support] About licenses of using toxcore for a free public applicaton

nurupo nurupo at tox.chat
Sat Nov 18 14:49:08 UTC 2017 

It's unlikely that the license is going to change. There are no "the 
devs managing the license", every single person that has ever 
contributed to toxcore manages it, meaning that you would need to get 
all 150 toxcore contributors to agree to change it. Also, we already 
have tried changing the license from GPL to LGPL at one point in time 
and it didn't worked out too well :\

---
Regards,
nurupo

On 2017-11-18 06:19, Nocs ... wrote:
> I would like this email to go to the devs that are managing the
> license of tox and ask them for my application to give me a different
> license
> 
> other than GPL.
> 
> I need to have a different license first of all cause my application
> is not based on tox but i use the lib of tox as a cogwheel inside my
> application for chat system and only for that.
> 
> I also haven`t modified the tox-core i use and i can`t modified from
> windows and my knowldge is not so high to understand how to do it.
> 
> I use the ready tox-core as builded by its devs in this link
> https://build.tox.chat/view/libtoxcore/job/libtoxcore-toktok_build_windows_x86_shared_release/
> [5]
> 
> I add this lib as is inside my app and i use its functions to be able
> to have a chat system with the best security that tox provides.
> 
> Why i can`t use GPL
> 
> GPL forces my full application which is huge enough and uses inside
> many security connections.
> 
> It has users and members that keeps even the tox chat system enabled
> only to them and is not able to connect with outsiders of my
> application clients and that is also applied to tox.
> 
> The connection like adding or removing and chatting can be done only
> from a member of my application to another member of my application
> clients and thats why i needed tox`s secure chat system between them.
> 
> As a feedback for giving me a diferent license by understanding that i
> can`t use an open source code i can provide your license that will be
> 
> specific for my application with a link to your tox open source code
> if that is what you like as feedback.
> 
> My application is a free closed source application and free to all
> it`s services.
> I can assure that tox is used as is from the above link inside my
> application and even devs from utox or qtox know that i had problems
> compiling my own tox-core or even using the static tox without the
> shared dll for windows.
> 
> Thanks in advance for reading this and i hope the devs of tox will
> give me a specific license for my project which i repeat it is not a
> tox based chat client ... as a paradigm i would define my application
> as a free of charge watch-clock that uses tox as a cogwheel inside it.
> 
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> FROM: Support <support-bounces at lists.tox.chat> on behalf of Nocs ...
> <nocos30 at hotmail.com>
> SENT: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:05:33 PM
> TO: ☣Adam
> CC: support at lists.tox.chat
> SUBJECT: Re: [Tox Support] About licenses of using toxcore for a free
> public applicaton
> 
> Thanks for your responses toxers,
> 
> yes i am a new to c++ i just learned it the last 2 years and now that
> it was time to move on for a public application even with the help of
> some ready libs such as tox as small parts of my full application i
> see that the only license that is not helping programmers is the GPL
> instead of it, it kills the freedom of any common programmer and
> giving the advantage to big sharks to steal ideas from us all.
> 
> I therefore cant also say anything about the tox devs. But i really
> don`t understand why they don`t protect their code in other license
> way.
> 
> They could also write their own license like many others did and since
> they wanted to prove that their code was clean by using open source
> project for it that doesn`t have to force all others if they want to
> use a lib from them to have to publicate the full program others also
> made.
> 
> As about my knowledge over tox i will say it straight out as i was
> always saying it.
> 
> I can`t even compile it.
> I just took the ready shared-library for windowsx86-x64 with the four
> or five headers and the dll, i used them as library inside my
> application
> 
> and i just call the neccessary functions provided by them for my
> interface.
> 
> And for that a GPL is way to high cause is like forcing me to open all
> of my projects code not for security reasons but instead of this to
> ruin
> 
> my security by giving the full connections of all other functions also
> inside my application.
> 
> I hope master devs and the ones who believe in liberty and want to
> help the programmers community will do their own license or use
> something more light by giving the option to use at least tox-core
> without modifying it as i do and just using it as lib and its
> functions to be able to use it in closed code free of charge
> applications.At least that would be one of the parameter if they cant
> make it somehow else.
> 
> By the way here is 3 links that these programmers though they have
> open source projects they repsected the needs of other programmers and
> made their own licenses in a good way.
> 
> https://github.com/arvidn/libtorrent/blob/master/LICENSE
> 
> http://www.boost.org/users/license.html
> 
> https://sqlite.org/copyright.html
> 
> These above 3 are a RESPECT to common programmers society as i see it.
> 
> 
> For me now that i am learning this whole license thing i clearly see
> that GPL is not giving and not protecting at all the common
> programmers,
> 
> it kills the hole community of programming and giving the rights to
> big sharks to create out of all the open sources new ideas for their
> big companies...
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> FROM: ☣Adam <adam at dc949.org>
> SENT: Thursday, November 16, 2017 7:44:48 PM
> TO: Nocs ...
> CC: nurupo; support at lists.tox.chat
> SUBJECT: Re: [Tox Support] About licenses of using toxcore for a free
> public applicaton
> 
> I can't speak for the toxcore developers and why they choose the
> license they did. At the end of the day, they put in the time and
> effort to write the code so if they only want to help GPL3 projects,
> that's their right. People who don't like their terms, can just wrote
> their own implementation of the protocol.
> 
> If you want an unencumbered implementation, the traditional way to get
> that is to write up a detailed specification and then have someone
> implement it who has never looked at the toxcore code. This ensures
> they aren't inadvertently copying any GPL code.
> 
> I think it'd be great to have multiple implementations of the library.
> That way if there's a bug in the core library it (probably) won't
> affect every piece of tox-based software. However, I've looked at all
> the code in toxcore, so I'm afraid I can't personally help you with
> the implementation.
> 
> I know it's not the answer you were looking for, but hopefully it
> gives you a path forward.
> 
> --Adam
> 
> On Nov 16, 2017 11:18, "Nocs ..." <nocos30 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks adam but why all programmers that want with their open source
>> code to help also the programmers society and use their codes tend
>> to be so blind and use GPL instead of their own license simple or
>> open public or other way that doesn`t harm other programmers.
>> 
>> here is a respect programmer as to my words
>> https://github.com/arvidn/libtorrent/blob/master/LICENSE [3]
>> 
>> also check at this sqlite3 https://sqlite.org/copyright.html [4]
>> respect about using their code
>> 
>> Why an open source tox unique chat core want to make all others use
>> their codes as open source if they use their lib inside their app
>> just for simple functions?
>> 
>> Why do they help in that way the big sharks who got the money by
>> using the GPL ready licenses and not the free common programmers
>> society by using open license about their codes ?
>> 
>> -------------------------
>> 
>> FROM: ☣Adam <adam at dc949.org>
>> SENT: Thursday, November 16, 2017 6:07:41 PM
>> TO: Nocs ...
>> CC: nurupo; support at lists.tox.chat
>> SUBJECT: Re: [Tox Support] About licenses of using toxcore for a
>> free public applicaton
>> 
>> It'd have to be a separate application with some interprocess
>> communication (IPC) mechanism. For example, on POSIX systems, there
>> is sendmsg().
>> 
>> Always make sure to understand the terms of the license *before*
>> using someone else's code. It's a lot easier to deal with up front
>> than at the end.
>> 
>> On Nov 16, 2017 09:54, "Nocs ..." <nocos30 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks for the response nurupo :/
>>> 
>>> its a bit of disaponting the GPLv3 issue.
>>> 
>>> Which of tox devs knows best what i can do about the license cause
>>> i need to use it somehow in my application but for free public use
>>> and i
>>> 
>>> really don`t want to make it open source but its free.
>>> 
>>> Is there anyone in tox devs that knows if i can do something else
>>> since i only use the core unafected ?
>>> 
>>> -------------------------
>>> 
>>> FROM: nurupo <nurupo at tox.chat>
>>> SENT: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:51:43 PM
>>> TO: Nocs ...
>>> CC: support at lists.tox.chat
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Tox Support] About licenses of using toxcore for a
>>> free public applicaton
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> toxcore is licensed under GPLv3, as seen in
>>> https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore/blob/master/COPYING [1], so to
>>> use
>>> toxcore in your application you have to comply with the terms of
>>> the
>>> GPLv3 license.
>>> 
>>>> The application is a free in all its services but not an open
>>> source
>>>> code application.
>>> 
>>> Afaik, GPL license requires you to release your application under
>>> GPL
>>> license and provide the full source code of your application to
>>> your
>>> users. There should be no difference if you link it statically or
>>> dynamically. You are probably thinking of LGPL, which has a
>>> linking
>>> clause.
>>> 
>>> I might be mistaking though, I have only basic understanding of
>>> licenses
>>> and by no means am I an expert in them. There are professionals in
>>> the
>>> legal field which deal with licensing, they should be able to help
>>> you
>>> with understanding licenses.
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Regards,
>>> nurupo
>>> 
>>> On 2017-11-15 17:50, Nocs ... wrote:
>>>> Hello toxers,
>>>> 
>>>> its been a long time and since i am on the latest test of some
>>>> application of mine that uses tox-core shared library i wanted
>>> to ask
>>>> you
>>>> 
>>>> about the license of toxcore.
>>>> 
>>>> Do i need to place anything on my application as text, inside or
>>>> outisde as a file if i make my application public ?
>>>> 
>>>> The application is a free in all its services but not an open
>>> source
>>>> code application.
>>>> 
>>>> I haven`t modified any code inside tox i only use the tox-core
>>> as is
>>>> from the shared library and i use the code and functions i need
>>> from
>>>> inside it.
>>>> 
>>>> What kind of license thing does tox need to be inside my app and
>>> how
>>>> can i use it if anything is needed ?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Support mailing list
>>>> Support at lists.tox.chat
>>>> https://lists.tox.chat/listinfo/support [2]
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Support mailing list
>>> Support at lists.tox.chat
>>> https://lists.tox.chat/listinfo/support [2]
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore/blob/master/COPYING
> [2] https://lists.tox.chat/listinfo/support
> [3] https://github.com/arvidn/libtorrent/blob/master/LICENSE
> [4] https://sqlite.org/copyright.html
> [5]
> https://build.tox.chat/view/libtoxcore/job/libtoxcore-toktok_build_windows_x86_shared_release/
> _______________________________________________
> Support mailing list
> Support at lists.tox.chat
> https://lists.tox.chat/listinfo/support

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